Copenhagen, April 27, 2017
A Time Monk Radio Network presentation.
CB = Courtney Brown - P = Paul - M = Melodi
P: Welcome to The Plane Truth. The show where we go into some of the mysteries and anomalies in the dirty underbelly of the world around us. I'm your host Paul and joining me - joining us - this week, we have Courtney Brown, who is really quite well known in the remote viewing world for all of his work, and handling projects, and writing books. Courtney are you there?
CB: I am here. I wanna thank you Paul for inviting me on.
P: Well - thank you for coming. I definitely appreciate it. And along for the Ride is my friend Melodi. Melodi are you there?
M: Oh yes I am. Thank you for inviting me.
P: OK. Well - let's get the show on the road here. Courtney - I think the audience - our audience - is likely to know your work and you've done so much, but maybe you could tell us about your website and then this latest project about the Phoenix Lights.
CB: Sure! I am Courtney Brown as you know and I'm the director of The farsight Institute - www.farsight.org - like seeing far. Dot org because we are a non profit. And although I've been on your show many times before, let me just say, that we're the largest biggest best venue for remote viewing public major studies anywhere. And I can say that because we are the only venue for big broad public studies of remote viewing, as it was done - or as it is done - using procedures that were developed by the United States military and used for espionage purposes, or methodologies that are derivatives of those procedures. And so we have done a whole bunch of studies using remote viewing, and we have talked about some of them in the past on your show, but this is a new one about the Phoenix Lights event which happened in 1997, and some of our studies - you listeners should understand - are scientific in nature in the sense that we study the existence of multiple realities, the nature of time, the nature of the remote viewing phenomenon itself, and other studies are more exploratory in nature and in this particular case we had a mystery we wanted to resolve, using the best remote viewers on the planet Earth, who work under totally blind conditions - meaning they do all of the work solo and without being told anything at all about what the nature of the target is, using these military - or military derived - methodologies, and they were just told “there is a target - remote view it!” And the remote viewers that were involved in the study are Daz Smith, who's in the UK, and Dick Allgire, who is in Hawaii. And during the time they were doing the remote viewing for this project they had absolutely no communication between them and they did all the work solo, and it's the most interesting thing about the remote viewing phenomenon itself, for you get perceptual information transferred across time and space in apparent - well incomplete - violation to the accepted mainstream laws of physics, which are incorrect, and they have to be modified, and we do know how the physics of remote viewing works now, but the stuff you get at the university is just crazy. But we do know what will be taught at the university in 10 years for example.
P: “Well - we can hope!”
CB: So we do understand the physics. But basically we are doing that methodology - those remote viewing, and the results are stunning in how they overlap and basically are carbon copies of each other.
P: So what did we get from this Phoenix Lights study. What did we find out.
CB: This is an interesting phenomenon because in most of our studies we don't deal with extraterrestrials, aliens, things like that. That's unusual for us to do that. And that's because the remote viewers are sort of prima donnas, and they like their work to be accepted through mainstream - as close to mainstream as possible, so they want to focus on just the remote viewing phenomena itself. But there are no illegal targets, so eventually I just decided to throw this at them. And I threw 3 targets at once at them, in a series called 'remote reviewing the aliens', so we did Cydonia Mars - which is the so-called base on Mars, a facility that's clearly visible on a NASA picture on a crater wall of Iapetus - a moon of Saturn, and now the Phoenix Lights. So this project is a bit unusual also because normally we deal with photographs and there has to be public photographs - official photographs, like NASA governmental released photographs, that are not in dispute, and so we start with photographs, so we have a lot of verifiable stuff that we want to be able to compare with the remote viewers data, and for the Phoenix Lights project we don't have that. We don't have the photograph that gives us a lot of verifiable stuff on a picture basis, but we have a ton of verifiable stuff that is accessible, because we know exactly what happened. It happened in a desert city - Phoenix Arizona. And we know that it was witnessed by tens of thousands of people in the city of Phoenix itself, but potentially hundreds of thousands of people over a 5 state area that includes Sonora Mexico and 5 US states - that we had these lights flying in formation over that large area and then settling in over Phoenix for a long time - like 2 hours, and witnessed again in Phoenix by tens of thousands of people. So that was enough for us to say that's as good as a photograph. We have all these witnesses and the witnesses included the former governor of the state Fife Symington, who was an air force officer, and he was a pilot, and in his own words - he knows everything that flies - and that was clearly not something that was of a normal physical form that he's ever seen. It was bigger than anything he had ever seen and he said it looked like an extraterrestrial spacecraft. And we also have a situation where the craft that had the lights on it - the Lights of course flew in formation cause they were attached to a thing - a craft - and the underbelly of the craft was visible to the people on the ground, and it was so big it blocked out the whole sky for some of the people. So it was huge, and the governor of the state said also that the governmental story of it being some flares that the military dropped was crazy because flares don't fly in formation, and you could see the underbelly of the ship, so it was a very interesting mystery, that the governmental explanation - that was issued 6 months after the event by a flight Lieutenant who gave a press conference. That didn't match with what the tens of thousands of people saw. So that was perfect for remote viewing to go in. We have the best remote viewers in the world going in under totally blind conditions, and they both go in and report all the verifiable stuff - that it was in a desert city in the American southwest. They all reported that there is zillions of people on the ground looking up at lights, and then they looked up at lights, and they saw what that was, and because it's remote viewing, the description for these particular remote viewers, of all the verifiable stuff, was as good as you would have gotten from anyone who was physically there at that time. However it was also better, because the remote viewers can move around in time and space, so they went right into the craft and described that. And that was fascinating for them to go right into it and say “Well - they are all looking at that thing”. And they both described it as - like a first encounters type of situation - like out of Star Trek. And they went into the craft and reported basically the same thing - that it was an Extra-Terrestrial craft and there were Extra-Terrestrials inside the craft. And again we had never given them ET/UFO type targets before. In fact in terms of explicitly a UFO type target, this is a first for us. So they weren't expecting anything like this and it was really fascinating to see them both come in with identical - you know - pieces of information, totally blind - opposite ends of the planet - no communication between them, and really clear descriptions of the city and the people on the ground and people in the ship.
P: Yeah - I was impressed. Well - where to begin. Why do you think it came?
CB: Well - it was clearly a purposeful attempt to communicate and interact with humans over Phoenix Arizona. And the attempt was an interesting attempt on two levels. In one sense it was Tuesday March 13th 1997 and they were letting people on the ground see them, but in another sense something really unusual happened during the remote viewing. Both remote viewers - Daz Smith and Dick Allgire - described the same Extra-Terrestrial guy, and he was tall, long blonde hair type thing, and they both described helpers that were around - that were shorter. And Dick Allgire - he actually got face to face with the guy - like went really close, and started to describe his eyes, and he described the eyes as cat-like in the way that the pupils are, and he said he wasn't a cat, but his eyes were cat-like in the sense of the pupils. So his remote viewing persona was very close to the person, and what was really interesting - and this is not a first for us, but it was a 2nd for us. But this is a really interesting thing. Dick actually started up a conversation. It wasn't a first because in our Giza project - the origins of the Great Pyramid of Giza - we also had interaction - a communication - that took place between a remote viewer and an extraterrestrial, who was found at the site. But in this particular case, Dick Allgire actually initiated the conversation. He was - like a couple of inches away from the guy's face, and basically just sort of said “ok cat-man, talk to me!” And the thing that is so interesting is that the guy did! So when you remote view humans - absolutely certifiably totally true completely end of story period - they cannot tell that you are remote viewing them. No matter what anyone ever says to you, remote viewers are never seen by human beings. We are genetically wired to make that very difficult for that to happen. However - with some extra terrestrials - some advanced extra terrestrials - that's a very easy thing to do - meaning they actually see you. So we have known that for a long time. Ingo Swann - who wrote the book “Penetration” - he reports that he was given the assignment to remote view a location on the Moon - by the military - in a military facility. And he actually saw some extra terrestrials, and they turned around and pointed at him. And back in those old days, the military - they had a monitor in the room - freaked out. They wanted to keep it secret, so they did something that we would today consider to be really silly. They said things like “pull out, pull-out, get back, get back - we don't want them to see you!” Which is really stupid. But nonetheless they did that, and that was the situation early on, where some extra terrestrials actually saw a remote viewer. When you go to a target, you actually leave - like an imprint - some type of a sense. But the basic idea is that Dick Allgire was seen by this alien, so the alien clearly was not human. Also the eyes indicated that. Both remote viewers described it like that. And Dick Allgire said “ok - talk to me”, and the guy talked to him. He basically told him a whole bunch of stuff about how they get here, and what they are doing. So the reason I'm spending time on this is - we mention that this is an event that happened in the evening on Thursday the 13th of March 1997. But that was the physical part of it. The aliens that were in this spaceship knew totally well that at that same time, that they were doing a light show for the people on the ground, they were explaining that light show - or explaining some aspects of themselves - to human beings in 2015. So it was very interesting that to them, that was not a big thing. They knew purposely they were doing something physical to the people on the ground, but simultaneously talking to people in 2015.
M: Courtney - sorry - I had a question on that. You have answered most of it already, before I asked it. But when I was watching this - when I saw this happen - the energy at the site - the energy totally changed - even watching it. And I felt that he was directly talking to this individual. But I wouldn't necessary be able to say he was talking to him in 1997. I mean - he goes “OK cat-man - talk to me” - and it's like - wow - he is there! And it's like even I can feel him from my seat.
CB: Yeah. But Dick was in 2015.
M: Yeah. So you think this was actually a cross-time communication.
CB: Yeah. And they knew that. They knew what they were doing. They made a triangle. And it was just fascinating to see how they did that.
M: The other thing I have on that - you may wanna search your way into - from this - is - there also seem to me - in Dick's overall discussion - several times it almost seems - and he's actually kind of loose at the end - that he is seeing more than one set of Phoenix Lights - almost like more than one time - like one that is far in the distant past, and one that's in 1997 and - you know - possibly he mentioned maybe even feeling a third one. They're getting a little bit confused and - you know - I think it goes into why are they here. I talked about it with my husband and he said “well - maybe they are just checking to see if we are civilized enough for contact yet”.
CB: Actually my personal thought is that... Well - we know for a fact that when a remote viewer goes to a target, that remote viewer has access to anything related to that target at any time, so these remote viewers are trained to stick to the target - meaning to stick to where they are, and to limit those movements. But they do bleed through from time to time, so you're exactly right Melodi, that these other things get mentioned, but the remote viewers try to stay on target as best as possible. But these other pieces of information of other things - and in fact there have been multiple Phoenix Lights types events that have occurred - and at different times, but this was the big one. This is the one that was witnessed by so many people. It's not the only one. It's not the isolated one, but it's the big one, especially given the number of really great witnesses, such as the governor of the state and a lot of police/firemen type things - official people that saw the thing. So this was the one we decided to go after, and it was really an interesting experience to see them both come in with basically carbon copies of the same information, but then to have that conversation kicked up with Dick. He has done that before, but in the Giza pyramid project - when that happened, he didn't initiate it. He ran across an extra terrestrial - it was a female - and she was negative. She was quite upset that he actually saw her. She thought it was interesting that he could do that - that humans could do that - but she was not at all pleased, and basically wanted him to get the blankety blank out of there. And he dutifully reported everything she was thinking - which is interesting. But this is a situation where the remote viewer interacted with an extraterrestrial who was pleased that he was there, and then the extra terrestrial took advantage of the opportunity in a good way, and started to give him a little bit of a physics lecture of how they get here, and how they travel, and explaining themselves a little bit, which is sort of - well it was definitely unusual and it was helpful.
M: That's what I thought. Even I could understand it and I'm a total dunce when it comes to physics - I mean - not well enough to do it, but I could understand. You don't want to describe what he said cause it was really interesting?
CB: Yeah. Basically the Extra-Terrestrial described how they get there and basically he said - your understanding of Physics - human's understanding of Physics - is not correct - that we look at reality as 3D, and that when we see stars for example, we think of them as burning nuclear events in a three-dimensional space, but that's actually not what they are. The physical space we live in actually has more dimensions in it, and we don't see those dimensions, so the stars are actually holes in that three dimensional space, and on the other side there are other dimensions - and there is a lot of energy on the other side - and that energy leaks through - or comes through - where those stars are, and so when you have other dimensions you have - as soon as you access those other dimensions - you have the ability to shortcut where you are and how you go from one space to the other, and so you get faster than light travel, by accessing these other dimensions, and that is not - I am a mathematician - I work at a social sciences program at a major university, but I don't do remote viewing research at the University. I do not do that, but nonetheless I am a mathematician, so this is a very - from a mathematical point of you - this is a very easily understood and commonly understood element, where you have multiple dimensions. You're actually dealing with dimensions that go beyond a - sort of a - limited set, and a good example for that would be a balloon. If you're an ant that walks around on a balloon, as far as that ant is concerned, the balloon is a flat two-dimensional surface, and if you wanted to go from one side of the balloon to the other side of the balloon, you have to walk around the outside of the balloon, till you get from one end to the other. But the reality is that if you go through the balloon, by accessing the other dimension - the third dimension - not just staying on the surface of the balloon - you can get to the other side much quicker. So this is very well understood within mathematics, and the idea that there are multiple dimensions that we don't see, is both controversial in physics, but also very well understood, and people are experimenting with that. When physicists normally talk about space - time and space, they call it Minkowski space, and basically what that is - you've got the three physical dimensions and time - and so they try - the sort of mainstream physicists - traditional physicists - they try to make all of their physics theories fit into Minkowski space. So if you accept Minkowski space as a given - and then they write their theories to fit into that. Well - if that's not correct - if Minkowski space is not the limit - there are other dimensions that we don't see - then the whole idea of Minkowski space sort of goes out the window, and you realize that this representation of reality, as something that occurs in Minkowski space, is like the ant on the balloon, and as far as the ant is concerned, the ant is trying to come up with theories of its reality - that space is a 2 dimensional surface, that it walks around on, and you sort of want to tell the ant - like - why don't you just wake up - there are other dimensions. I mean - that balloon is actually not a two dimensional surface, but it's a two dimensional surface within a three-dimensional space, and gosh - can't you figure that out? But the reality is that physicists have traditionally kept to what they see, so the reality is that they try to explain - fit into the superficial observations that they make - by looking around themselves. So the Extra-Terrestrial in the craft was trying to explain that Minkowski space is not it - it's not the limit. We actually have other dimensions, and using those other dimensions - it's a very easy mathematical thing - you can short-cut things, and get from one spot to the next, and that's what they do. It is fascinating to see that.
P: Yeah - I found that to be rather amazing - it's kind of like - Dick, you needed a longer chat with this guy.
CB: Yeah - a lot of people sort of wanted that to come across a little bit better - like a little bit more. But the reality is - we have to go, and we go in once. They've got maybe an hour at the targets, and they've got to leave, and we don't have them go back, and back, and back. They just really get one shot at this and so whatever they get they get, so that was really fascinating, that the alien actually knew there was a limit to what they were gonna say, and so decided to talk about that. If you think about it - like why that choice, and if you think about it, one of the great innovations - perhaps the great innovation - for the masses and mainstream to sort of accept the reality of remote viewing as a real phenomenon - as well as extraterrestrial life being correct - UFOs, ETs, things like that - is mainstream thinking - that travel between the stars is impossible, and perception across time and space is impossible, given the physicists' understanding of their own theories - that they are wanting to defend - those phenomena can't happen, and if they accept that those phenomena do happen then the whole house of cards that are taught at universities just crumbles.
P: Hey Courtney! But scientific progress happens one death at a time - right? On scientist dies and then the new one comes along and then you make progress.
CB: Yeah - it takes a long time. That was some thing that Max Planck observed a long time ago - well over 100 years ago - saying that when you have progress - you get progress in science, not by someone coming up with a good idea and everyone saying “wow - that was great!” But you have to get generational replacement. The current generation of physicists and mainstream scientists have to literally die, retire, be replaced, and so on. And then a younger generation, that's been exposed to this from the beginning, replace them - which is one of the reasons radio shows like your own are so important, because they expose a new generation of people to these ideas, and those are literally the people that will take these - carry the torch - and carry the torch - yeah.
M: That was the impression I had, that he said it because someone was going to hear it and maybe be able to run with it.
CB: Yeah - you see - that basic idea - that it is impossible - is really a mental stumbling block, and so he said - well - look, if this is such a big deal - the Impossible element - let's deal with that. If we are gonna have a communication from 1997 to 2015 lets explain how we do it. And as soon as they realize how we do it, then the issue of that we do it becomes much more easy to accept. So the how we do it and the what we do are totally connected. You know that...
P: Hey - what other - what can we say - the technical side of this. I mean - there was a description of - like the energy they might be using.
CB: Well - actually he didn't go into the physical propulsion type of...
P: No, not the Nordic type fellow. But when Dick was doing it - but I think Daz as well - they're kind of describing some variation of - like plasma - going along at the speed of the superconducting collider or something...
CB: Oh - they did describe some of the stuff - the technological stuff - that was going on inside the ship, and that was important - not so much because they were trying to explain how it worked, but they were clearly describing that this was not a craft of terrestrial origin. This was not like fuel tanks - burning - jet engines. This was something unusual - very high advanced type of stuff - was actually happening. You know - that idea - that the alien was describing - is very common. It's been around for a long time, and is commonly referred to in the story in the book called “Flatlanders”. So actually the idea of flatlanders is something that has been around. It's basically an idea of people who think they live on a flat thing, but in reality - yeah - it's much bigger. It was a fascinating thing for the alien to describe. What I want to emphasize to the audience - that there is a lot of verifiable stuff, and all of our projects should be looked at from the perspective of - before we believe what you're saying about aliens - did the remote viewers, under totally blind conditions, describe the verifiable stuff? And they really hit everything spot on. They very clearly described a desert city in the American southwest, that it was a night time event, that there were people on the ground, everybody was looking up, seeing this event that was happening in the sky, and they really had all of that stuff there, and so that was very similar to our other projects dealing with remote viewing the aliens, which is Iapetus and Cydonia. We have three separate events, and they all have a tremendous amount of verifiable stuff. So just on the level of remote viewing, a huge amount of stuff was there. So once you get the verifiable stuff accepted - that they were describing the target so clearly in terms of its physical dimensions - you can then say “ok - well - what else did they get that was new?” And the description of the craft, the shape of the craft, the people inside, the fact that there were different types of people inside - this tall blond hair type guy - the cat-man he was called - vs. the helpers which are shorter. I got the sense - it wasn't clearly described like this - but I got the sense that the shorter people were more like the zeta types that have the large wrap around eyes - helper types. But the tall Nordic type of guy was clearly the one who was in charge with respect to the interaction with the remote viewers.
P: Yeah it wasn't totally clear to me - like could these be - you know - some non-grey grey or something? You know what I mean? I wasn't quite sure.
CB: Remember that there is no such thing as a single type of zeta or grey. Just like there's no single type of human. You can say - are humans just Russians, or are they just Chinese, or are they just - you know - Mexican? What are they? Are they Filipinos or are they Africans. So there's no one type of human on a physical level - in terms of how they look - but also in terms of where they come from and their point of view and so on. So we really can't be racist and say just because they are of a certain race, they are this, that, or the other. We have to say they just look different in this particular setting, and whoever they were, wherever they came from, they were different from the tall guy that was blond, and they seemed to be helper types, which we've seen described a lot in the UFO type of literature, where you have helpers that are of that - sort of - genetic variety.
P: What else do you think kind of stood out in the sessions - obviously the Nordic fellow - but anything else about the purpose of it or...?
CB: Yeah - actually you just mentioned it yourself. The purpose of it was the thing that really struck me, because clearly the extraterrestrials that were in the craft were trying to communicate with humans. So this is clearly very different from what you get in mainstream media. If you look at the mainstream media, the basic bottom line of 99% of everything is that “OMG - the aliens are coming” - like “Run for Your Life!” And even people like Stephen Hawkings - I am not picking on him of course - but even when he has talked about the aliens, he mentioned, in the not too distant past that - you know - don't worry about whether the aliens exist. Assume they exist, and be very very afraid. And so - you know - if they exist, they are not gonna be good. And the basic ideas is - they would have tremendous technological advantage over humans, and that the basic idea is, that when advanced beings interact with less advanced things, the lesser advanced beings generally suffer - meaning it's an overwhelming type of - and you look at - like when the Europeans came to North America and what happened to the Native Americans. And so the look you get from that perspective is that the only reason that aliens would come here would be to conquer us. That's the basic bottom line you get in all mainstream media. Very rarely do you have aliens coming here and being just helpful and good, and so that really goes against it, and so it was clear that the extra-terrestrials in this case were going out of their way to show themselves as benign, helpful, and also patient. They were very clearly saying “we understand what you can do, and you have your limits, and so we're going to do light shows to the people in 1997 - here we are you can see us - and we are gonna hang around so you can see us for a long time, and let the governor of the state get a good look - things like that. But at the same time we're going to be explaining ourselves to humans that are not so easily freaked out, and they happen to be in the year 2015”. So on one level they were showing themselves, and wanting to have some kind of a first contact experience. But on the other level, they very clearly were trying to incorporate the idea of remote viewing as important to the Extra-Terrestrial First Contact experience. Meaning - they didn't hesitate to interact with humans on the level of consciousness - on the level of remote viewing. So to them the message that they seem to be saying is “the physical stuff can take you only so far - you can actually see us - you see the lights, but if you want to understand us, you have to understand more about your own consciousness, and here are some humans that are doing that, and we're going to talk with them”. So the message is two fold: First there is a physical reality to the extraterrestrials, but the second message is: Don't even try to completely understand us unless you understand us on the level of consciousness. So their technology spans into consciousness, their ability to communicate spans into consciousness, and their desire or ability to interact with humans spans into consciousness. So it's not simply a - develop a machine, and if we get the right invention we can deal with the extra-terrestrials. It's very much - we have to understand ourselves on the level of consciousness, if we want to understand the extraterrestrials, including their technology. So it was a very interesting thing. For example they didn't - like have a radio transmission that was beamed to 2015. They had an interaction over consciousness, using remote viewing. That was very important. They are saying “don't limit your interactions with us, or even think that those interactions can just exist on the strictly physical level”. Consciousness is the key, and so that was a huge lesson, and I don't really think that was ever fully explained in any interview that I've done on the Phoenix Lights, and I think this is really probably the most important understanding to come out of the entire Phoenix lights event - that looking at the extra-terrestrial phenomena from a physical point of view is a dead end. You have to look at it from both.
P: Courtney - I think you've been around this long enough to realize that if you go to a UFO convention, you will run into guys in their 50s, who basically think like 12 year old boys, about Star Trek - like they are obsessed with - like to boldly go around the universe with more advanced toys than we have - you know what I mean. They are not into the mental side of it or something like a different dimension or consciousness.
CB: You are absolutely correct. When you go to the UFO conventions, the whole thing is focused on physical evidence, the physical side of stuff, the physical this, the physical that, the technology. But - look - lets be honest - Civilizations hang around for a long period of time, and if you have a Civilization that hangs around for a long period of time, they invent everything that can be invented. So inventing a new thing is not a big deal. It's not even that important. There must be zillions of societies out there, that have invented everything that possibly can be invented. So the real thing that's important is consciousness, and in that sense - I'm gonna say something that I really think is fundamentally true. I honestly think that human beings on the planet Earth are the most advanced species in the Galaxy, or among the absolute most advanced species in the Galaxy. Now, when you here that, you say “that's crazy” - I mean - look - you have these extra-terrestrials, that are clearly flying in an extremely advanced craft over the city of Phoenix. I mean - how can you call us more advanced. It's like stupid, because you're looking at us from the perspective of where we are with regard to physical inventions, and that doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what inventions you have. You wait a long enough time, you'll have all the inventions that you can possibly think of. But what the human experience is - and this is why I think we are of such interest to the extraterrestrials. The human experience is an experience in where people get born into human bodies, and we're genetically designed to have a tremendous amount of limitations. I've heard that sometimes humans are described as the Masters of limitations - in the sense that telepathy is very limited - almost to the point where we have mainstream science telling us for - like zillions of years - that it doesn't even exist. That remote viewing is not possible. That we are cut off from who we are, memories of who we are, where we are, where we came from, that we think of ourselves as - like lone rangers. We are out here alone, and when we have a walk in the park by ourselves, we are there alone. It's just us, cut off from everything else. Well - this is a genetic thing, and apparently other species - extra-terrestrial species - don't have those limitations, so telepathy is very easy for them, perception across time - very easy for them, and so - what's happening with the human species is, that we are able to experience reality as if we are cut off from almost everything else. We have these limitations, so that makes us a platform for explorations into the cutting edge of consciousness. Living life and discovering who we are in the context of all these limitations that we have on ourselves. So I like to think of it as - like bungee jumping. So when you jump off a bridge with a rope tied around your ankle, and you bounce bounce bounce on the end of a bungee-thing. Well - what you are doing is, you're having an experience in the context of severe limitations - you have only a rope stopping you from crashing on the ground - and that's a real interesting experience. You have the bungee experience. And so - that is not a bad experience, because we don't have something to walk on. That's a good experience. So we're mastering that type of limitations experience. So I think that's really were the cutting edge of everything is in the Galaxy - which is - how to have an experience - a life experience - with as much of a set of limitations as possible. And I think we are at the cutting edge of where that is. And you can see what kind of problems it gets us. We get into problems of discussing who we are, what we are doing, and are extraterrestrials real - even though they are flying right in front of us. How do they communicate? So it produces all of this type of a problem, and I think our overcoming these limitations - given the fact that we have these limitations - is the most important contribution humanity is going to make to everyone in the Galaxy - showing that it can be done. And I think, at some point in time we will be an example that will be shown throughout all Civilizations, basically saying that in situations where other Civilizations are experiencing hardship, they will be able to say that if humans could do it - if humans could discover themselves and become a species with a destiny - with all those limitations - then anyone can do it. In a reality, where we will end up being a beacon of hope for everybody - everybody, like everywhere. That's important.
P: I hope so. On the other hand I sometimes wonder if there aren't all these aliens out there making bets on us - like pull another Atlantis or whatever. What is the over or underline? Is it 50-50 that we will destroy the planet? Or what?
CB: I bet they are! I think those are real possibilities, and I think there are people making bets, and I think that is one of the reasons that we have so much Extra Terrestrial activity going on around Earth right now. I bet we are the best show in the Galaxy right now. I mean - really - if you take the inventions part of it away - like - if you just assume that - you know - having a ship that can get here is not a big deal, then what really is there of interest to us - or about us? And it really is - are they gonna make it? Can they make it under those conditions, with all those limitations. And you know - that's exactly...
P: Like you kind of said - maybe we are on a cutting edge - we are on that edge between - I guess - what you would call a higher civilization - not technologically - but higher in the sense of spiritually or whatever, and then - like - are we gonna fall down again?
CB: Yeah - and what if we don't fall down? What if we actually make it, with all these limitations? It will be something like your breath drawn in across the Galaxy. It'll be like “oh - my gosh! Look what they did!” You can just assume that there are Civilizations everywhere with their people under hardship - as above so below - there is probably awful situations out there. But if we overcome our limitations - given the limitations we have - then anybody - literally anybody - could say “well - we can do it too! They did it!” In fact - I don't think it's very hard to accept the idea that in the distant future there are people that search us out to wonder if we were a mythical civilization or whether we really existed, because it could seem so impossible to them. How could they discover who they are - and they are genetically - sort of - cut off from everything. They don't have any easy access to telepathy or perception across time or anything. How could they find out, and figure it out, and become a species that could do something, with all that. And then - if they can do it - hey, we've got fewer limitations - we can do it as well. I mean - that's the message we are sending, and I think that's why everybody is so interested in us. I think that's why the Galaxy is sending ships here - letting them be seen. They don't want to disturb our Awakening. They want our awaiting to happen. We have to do it ourselves. But they don't mind nudging us and hoping for the best.
M: Yeah - they were essentially - if you want to use the term - they were using toys though to get here. They weren't just - like walking mentally - which you would think that an extremely advanced mental civilization - wouldn't need travel machines, but they seem to be using them in fact. One of the things I thought was really interesting, was that both remote viewers getting that - which people will see if they actually watch the video - drew almost identical - what we are calling propulsion systems or something - out. They are - kind of - a tornado or something in the middle of the dome, and with things swirling around of them. One of the viewers thought that it was more of a walkway, and the other - sort of - saw it as - you know - protons or energy going round and round. But - you know - they were both basically describing the same thing. And watching them draw that - it was like - it was obviously some sort of propulsion system which - you know - I just think it's interesting that obviously they haven't left mechanics totally behind either.
CB: No. In fact they seem to be using the technical stuff as a lure - like a fishing lure - to sort of prompt us into asking the right questions, and asking questions at all, to help us to not be complacent. So they clearly are using the technological stuff as a means of getting us to move forward. But - you know - you have to understand that they picked a major city at night time. So they didn't - like - do everything in the broad daylight, and force it. They let it happen at night. They let hundreds of thousands - potentially, but clearly absolutely tens of thousands of people see it. They were close enough, so that it was unambiguous to everyone who watched it, that they were a craft, but they still let it happen at night, so they're not like forcing us. It's not like you go up to somebody and slap them around and say “wake up, wake up you jerk, see the reality in front of you”. They are letting us discover this in our own right, but they are clearly using the technology to prompt us to ask these questions, but also - you know - there is this other thing Melodi, that's important - that they clearly did not have to interact with us on the level of remote viewing. They clearly did thou. To them it was a big deal. They took time out of this event. They had the event setup on a physical level, but they took time out to interact with us on the level of remote viewing. That means that they really had their priorities as two fold: A. Physical - obvious witnesses, but B. None of those obvious witnesses on the physical level were given any indication of what was really going on and how it was happening. The explanations came through on the level of remote viewing. So they value the remote viewing as equal to the physical stuff.
P: Courtney - I thought one of the viewers - I thought it was Dick - had kind of - like there was an audience on the ground that had more knowledge of the event. Can you explain that.
CB: Yeah - that's sort of Curious, so let me explain. This is a speculative element, so I don't know if this is true, but it's odd, and some people can think of it as a synchronicity, or just sort of odd. But apparently there was an attempt at that time by Steven Greer and his CSETI group, to interact with spaceships - extra-terrestrials - in the Phoenix area at that time, and they do things like - where they try to mentally call in ships. They call it - they use words like “Vector in the spacecraft” by showing them where they are, and things like that. Now - on a personal level, I am certain the space craft - the extra-terrestrials - don't need any directional help. I'm sure they don't need someone to tell them “make a left here, make a right here - we are over here”. But nonetheless - the very fact that the humans are trying to do that - are trying to actually direct the extra-terrestrials to come in their direction, and have open contact, is something that the extra-terrestrials themselves would probably think is very important, and very significant. And my understanding is that there was something like that going on at the time the Phoenix Lights was happening, and it is interesting that if you look at the work of both Daz Smith and Dick Allgire, they both report some humans that apparently are trying to have this first Contact type of experience. So - now - whether they're talking about the CSETI people - they don't mention Steve Greer's name. They don't mention CSETI, but they do talk about some humans that are different from everybody else - that are trying to have some type of interaction, and they do talk about the extraterrestrials making a reach out to that particular group. And then - of course - the remote viewers have their own interaction, but you're correct. That does seem to be something like that, and I'm glad you raise that, because that's something that's actually never been raised in an interview about this before. And it's interesting that the CSETI stuff with Steve Greer was in fact apparently happening at the same time that the Phoenix lights event did occur. And that the remote viewers did report something that could be interpreted as describing that attempt by the CSETI people to do what they were doing.
M: Well - the first remote viewer - several times - drew a picture of the sort of Nordic guy - Cat-man - probably - or like him - actually talking to a smaller person on the ground, and indicating that this person was dressed very primitively. And what I flashed on this - I wondered - are we remembering actually a previous encounter here, which - if these people don't have the same idea of time as we do - to them it might not have really been as much of a separate event. It was like - we came here before, we talked to somebody, and maybe for us it was 4000 years ago.
CB: Yeah - my interpretation of that was really along the line of the CSETI People. I didn't think of that as communication with people in the distant past. I really thought of that as - they're having some type of physical interaction, and that sort of makes sense with regard to what apparently Steve Greer and the CSETI people were trying to do.
M: He kept saying distant past and dressed primitively.
CB: Well - I think the idea of primitive vs advanced was something that the remote viewers were using - remember they are totally blind to the target - so they're using words like that to describe the relative state of the various groups. So relative to the beings in the craft, the beings on the ground were extremely primitive, but - and I think that's what Daz in particular was picking up when he was describing that. That's how I interpreted that. It was not that the people on the ground were caveman, but that there was a huge gap between the Extra-terrestrials in the spacecraft and the people on the ground.
P: Melodi - there is another angle to these words in remote viewing - like primitive. Well - maybe people 80000 years ago were more advanced than we are. You know what I mean? You know - what does primitive mean - you know what I mean? In other words - in the context of this, maybe we are primitive.
M: Well - that came out more in the second - I really felt that more in the second - I get my names confused - but the second remote viewing, it definitely seemed like there was a comparison between just who is on the ground and who is in the ships. But that first one - it just - I didn't think it was somebody 80000 years ago. It felt more like - they drew the picture of like - the on the ground stuff, and then the kind of thing that looked almost like it might be something you might see on a maze, with the ladders and stuff. And then he is talking to somebody who is dressed in what - to the person seeing the remote viewing - describes as primitive dressed. And I thought - hmm - was this possibly an earlier contact in the southwest, which to the people coming in is the same really - part of the same - program of contacting and getting - you know - relating to humans and showing ourselves a little bit. But maybe it was - you know - somebody 2-3000 years ago talking to someone who's representing the native Americans. I could be totally wrong. It was just - the second time though - was definitely seemed to be like you say, a comparison between the technology we have and maybe the technology they have.
CB: Remember that the remote viewers are trying to make sense out of something they are perceiving in their minds, and so - when they do that, sometimes there are interpretation - not necessarily errors - but interpretation spins or inaccuracies, that are really oriented to trying to place words to describe something that they are receiving, and so I've seen this a lot. With remote viewers of the quality of Dick Allgire and Daz Smith, you get these inaccuracies to be as minimal as absolutely possible, but sometimes you still get them, and so when you're seeing a description of an advanced Society interacting with a less advanced Society, the real big thing that the remote viewers is perceiving, is this huge gap. And then the remote viewer has to say “what words am I going to use to describe this huge gap?” And so he says “well - you have this advanced Society - this advanced group of people inside this craft, and the people relative to that, are like really primitive”. And so - when he describes the gap and tries to explain in terms of advanced and primitive, sometimes the description of one of the sides may not be exactly accurate. Also - we don't think of ourselves as primitive. We don't think of ourselves as cavemen, but relative to the people in the craft, there is that huge gap. And so people like Daz Smith are trying to describe that with words, and that's how I interpreted it. These remote viewers are really good at keeping on target. It would be highly unusual for them to take a target that's happening right then and there, and to slip in time to be talking about some completely unrelated event - interaction that happened 3000 years ago.
M: Was it unrelated? I mean - I am sorry - I didn't mean to get off on a tangent. I see what you are saying and that's fine. And that's probably what's happening. It's just - to me, if you take it with the time-element - to the people that are actually doing the visiting then - is it unrelated to them.
CB: I know what you're saying, and it's a legitimate question, but to go that way, you have to sort of invent a whole scenario that's not part of the target, and what we really like to do is to say “it's best to explain things with the minimal amount of extra stuff thrown into it”. So it's easier and better for us to explain it by saying “there was a little bit of interpretation bending on the part of the remote viewer when describing the big Gap”. And that means there is a little bit of inaccuracy. If you have a big gap, you have 2 ends, where you have to describe both ends, and the remote viewers are really focusing on the huge gap, and describing how that gap occurs, rather than say “one end of the gap is actually a different target happening thousand of years ago”. It's actually more acceptable to say “well - there's gonna be some inaccuracies in describing the stuff that goes on on one of the ends”. So he's really not talking about a primitive culture, as we would describe a primitive culture, but a primitive culture, as it would be perceived in terms of the gap. So the people in the ship would be looking at the people on the ground as a technologically relatively primitive culture, and so - you know - the remote viewer is trying to convey that gap, and it's better to say there might have been some inaccuracies in the description of one end of the gap, then to say it was a totally different event happening thousands of years ago.
M: Especially when the second remote viewer is very clear that it is just simply the difference between the people in the ship and the people on the ground.
CB: Yeah. The interesting thing is, both remote viewers spot on described a gap - that you have these very advanced people in the ship, and these relatively very primitive people on the ground. So they both described that gap, and that gap is part of what you might call - given the fact that there is a ship there - it's part of what you might call a verifiable element to it, that there is a huge gap - meaning - they didn't describe American military personnel with a modern type of aircraft in the ship. They clearly describe these are not modern American type people. These are extra-terrestrials, and there is a huge gap. So that was important.
P: I would say it was pretty clear. I would say - both viewers made it pretty clear what they were looking at, and they were on target, and I think we got a lot of good questions out of it, and a lot of good answers. I mean...
CB: Yeah - I saw the interpretation elements of describing the people on the ground - were very much within the parameters of what can be expected with the absolute best remote viewing. I didn't see those as a problem...
P: Hey Courtney - let me give the example for Melodi. Melodi - when Daz was talking about the energy - like in the shape - you know - it's like it's going in and out - it's like - you know - a flame on a lighter - you know. Maybe it's real and it's not moving. It's just a perception. That's the best you can hope for - you know. The best viewer out there is still - it's kind of like poking around and getting a glimpse of things - you know.
CB: Yeah - but when you look at the descriptions in the video of both viewers - remember these are unedited videos - in the sense that you actually see the remote viewing recorded live under totally blind conditions. The descriptions of what was actually happening was at least as good - if not better - than what anybody would describe, if they were physically there at the same time. So the quality of the descriptions - in terms of the accuracy - is really spectacular for these viewers.
P: Oh - hey - Courtney - I totally agree with you. I'm just trying to say that - you know - when you're there in person Melodi - even if you were there in person - words would fail you to some extent. I mean - you would be saying - you know what I mean - it's like - well - I think it's this, and you know what I mean. There is just a limit to how some of these technological things could come across.
M: Oh - I thought the descriptions - I thought they were brilliant - I mean - and just exactly what you said. I was explaining it to my husband, and I was saying - you know - they are seeing this thing pulsing, and he's not sure what it is exactly. He's seeing it first and then he manages to go in to see a little bit better, but maybe it's changing shape - I mean - yeah - it's exactly... I thought that the two together were absolutely astounding in their...
CB: It was also interesting to see the descriptions - for example of Daz Smith - describing the inside of the ship - how it was very plasticy, very modern. He was describing - like the textures of the substances that were made in the inside of the ship. It was interesting - you know. That was an actual eyewitness. It wasn't - like an abductee trying to remember under hypnosis something that may have happened to her or him. This is an actual live eyewitness report of somebody inside the ship at the time it was happening being recorded live, and the level of detail that he described about how the environment looked around him, how these substances looked around him - you know - the extremely clean nature of the inside of the ship. I mean it was a very Star Trek Enterprise-ish type of clean type of thing.
P: Well - yeah - the clothes, the metallic kind of...
CB: The clothes, the plasticy feel to the walls, and to the other inside materials, and - yeah - it's fascinating.
P: Definitely. So - I mean - basically to wrap it up for today, cause I know you need to go before too long. This was a very well done project. It's very interesting to watch this - I mean. I recommend it for everyone - to watch this and get an idea.
CB: You know - if I can make one point. You know - our Atlantis project is now available for free - that was dealing with an anomaly that was on the bottom of the ocean 3 miles deep and a 1000 miles west of Portugal and Morocco - that's clearly visible on Google Earth Images. And now the Giza project - the origin of the Great Pyramid of Giza - will be available for free also in 2 weeks on August 14th. We're putting that up on YouTube as well. So we want some of our projects to be available. Almost everything on our website is free and available now, but in terms of our most modern projects, we want some of them to be visible - to be watchable - on YouTube, so people can get an idea of what we do with our other stuff. But if you notice that the production quality - based on comparisons with our Atlantis and Giza work - between that and what we do now with the Phoenix Lights, is improved a tremendous amount, so there's a couple of lessons to draw from this. We are pulling ourselves up from our bootstrap. We are getting better at making these documentary movies, but also the lesson to be drawn is, that we don't have major companies funding this for us, or doing this for us. We're doing it all ourselves. And the reason you get one project after the next, after the next, is this is not being done by a major production company, that would come in and do one project and then go off and do something else with somebody else, and - you know - we would never hear from them again. We're actually doing this ourselves, and when you see the production quality, the quality of the green screen, the quality of the video, and stuff like that, and you notice it's improved since the Atlantis and Giza days. That's something that's important to know. That means we're taking the videography seriously. Were taking the “let's present this to humanity” seriously in the best possible way in terms of making it interesting on video. And we're studying how to do that, and we're trying new things. We're being experimental, and we're buying good cameras and good machinery and good software, and learning how to make it, and learning how to use it all. And so this is important, because the lesson to be drawn from that is, that no one was going to save us at Farsight by coming in and doing everything for us, and making the movies one after the next - to be perfect. We had to learn to do it ourselves. The lesson to draw from that is - that's the situation of all of humanity. Nobody is coming to save us. What we see - when you see the production quality improve. Translate that to the growth curve of all of humanity. Nobody is gonna save us. We have to save ourselves. And so the ETs are watching, but they're not gonna do the job for us. The whole idea of humanity becoming a species with a destiny means that humanity does it. So this actually is one of the reasons why your show - the Plane Truth - is so important. You're actually part of the entire process of humanity waking up, because the extra-terrestrials clearly have the capability of flying here. They clearly have the capability of having technological mastery over everything that you can imagine, but they're clearly not doing the job for us. So since mainstream media is not doing this, you have to say “well - who is?” Well - look in the mirror. You guys are doing it. That shows you that you're not like a fringe element that is just fiddling around on the edges, but doesn't really matter in the big picture of things. You're the story. You're the actual big deal. This is a big event, and these recordings that you make - and these interviews that you make - will literally be looked at - in the future - as pivotal events. And you're using available technology - that is - you know - basically Skype and the Internet and stuff like that. But you're doing a really good job with it. So when you see our production quality improve, and so that our documentary films are like really good now, and getting better each time we do a new one. Also - that refers to yourself - I mean - it wasn't too many years ago before a radio show like this over the Internet was almost impossible, and very primitive. The technology was hard to figure out - how to do it. And now you guys do great shows. Well - that's humanity saving itself, and so - anyways - when you notice the production quality go up, remember that's sort of reflecting the whole kitchen sink - the whole package of all that we do, including all that you do.
P: Oh Courtney - thanks for the kind words. I would point out that your production quality truly is much better now than a few years ago. It's really significantly improved, and that's saying so much, because - again - as you say, these are really not professional - you know - things - done by television stations and what have you. This is just us trying to do things to make the world a better place. And that's really like you say. We need to not count on Saviour's, and just count on looking in the mirror a little bit more.
CB: Yeah - that's probably the biggest, most important, lesson of this entire Phoenix Lights stuff. The ETs have all the technology that you can imagine, but they're waiting for us to do the job.
P: Exactly. Ok Courtney - why don't we wrap it up this time. And if you wanna - one more time - give out your website, then we'll call it a day.
CB: Yeah - if everyone could realize that we are non-profit. So our website is www.farsight.org - that's like seeing far, dot org. And we're a non-profit, which is why the dot org is there. And that we do not have a means of advertising, because we are a nonprofit. We don't buy any advertising, so if people could sign up for our free newsletter. We send it out once a week, and it's on the navigation-board at the top. Just click on it and put in your email address. We never give out the email addresses for any purpose whatsoever. So there's no spam associated with it - just our weekly newsletter, and that's the only way we have to communicate with people, so that people know what we're doing. Also if people feel like signing up for subscribing to our two YouTube channels. We have a serious science YouTube channel and we have a YouTube channel that's more oriented towards - sort of - the entertainment side. So we call that the cool sexy side, and that's something that we recently started up, so that we can do more experimental stuff, both with video and audio and stuff like that, in terms of presenting it - especially to a younger generation that is very Internet and YouTube friendly. So we have two YouTube channels and - anyway - the email newsletter is the big key. So if you could sign up for that. That way you'll be able to hear the latest and the greatest every week when we send out our newsletter.
P: Ok - well thanks much Courtney. That's it folks. It's a wrap.
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